Command distance hack

#1 by 96mgb , Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:20 pm

So a debate is raging on FB regarding the ability to split your platoon into individual teams (suffering plus 1 to hit and no dash) and go tearing off around the battlefield. While Phil doesnít want to change the rule it might be worth discussing it here. Several captains have already stated they arenít happy with this aspect and I think we can probably all agree it was never intended. Issue is a rulebook can always be broken when the most compatible people play.

Could I suggest this issue is looked at when people start focusing on MW. It could be something we could vote on toning down in the rule pack if the majority of Captains agree.

Not saying thatís the way it needs to go. Just noting there is a lot of voices of discontent.

I for one have no desire to wade through lots of dirt cheap infantry all operating as individual team units itís just not in the spirit of things imho. For me itís spirit of intention vs RAW.


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Last edited 09.03.2018 | Top

RE: Command distance hack

#2 by ReBrock , Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:37 pm

Isnít this like a big change from v3 to v4? I think that troops moving out of command was something that happend in real life and the penalties they suffer from this seems to be legit also. Dunno what others think but the new way command distance works now is really a V4 thing that works.

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RE: Command distance hack

#3 by Mike (Santa) Klaka , Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:10 pm

It is only my opinion but I think people are looking at the SYMPTON not the CAUSE, If the number of stands/vehicles required to be 'in good spirits' was half the starting number (as in v3), with no other change to the unit moral rules the odd stand could still wander off and 'be a hero' as did seem to happen historically, but sending off most of the unit in penny packets would risk a casualty or two causing the whole unit to go home.

There are 3 or 4 areas where v4 seems to me to allow problems, I think unit morale is a big one.

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RE: Command distance hack

#4 by 96mgb , Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:21 pm

Santa I kind of agree however I think the issue her is 2 fold.

1. Beyond the odd move out command for for the odd thing for a single turn like nipping off for a quick zook shot or leaving a mortar or HMG behind for covering fire it wasnít really a wide spread thing before from what Iíve noticed. The key difference is that in v3 if you were out of command you had to move back towards it. In V4 you donít. Hence lots of teams running off causing chaos and in some ways a speed bump/slow down.

2. I think itís quite obvious it wasnít how it was designed to work. This is something that has been discovered and exploited to the limit (but within) the rules as written. This will always happen when you are playing at such a competive environment. Itís like the mine field/hedge tactic in V3 where you couldnít clear it. The difference here is that Phil is releuctant to change it and doesnít see it as a big issue. Thatís absutely true in a way as 99% of players would never really think to do it as itís just not they way itís designed for. But we arenít 99% of players :-)

Hence I think itís worth over the next couple of months people discussing and testing it. We have the oppotunity if voted on to limit it. For instance saying teams starting a turn out of command can only move back towards command like V3.

To be clear if people havenít seen what I am referring to imagine this

Strelk blob with kommisar, and 5 stands hiding dug in out of LoS next to the CiC. Every stand (quite a lot) then runs off with no command distance at all anywhere they want. All that happens is they suffer -1 to hit, hardly a big deal for a rifle MG team. Yet every team now assaults and is assaulted individually if you want. Every team creates a 2 inch bubble around it. Every team stops and ambush within 4 etc etc. oh and as the CiC is Ďin commandí of the kommisar and pltn commander they get extra morale and a re-roll for everything.

Now imagine that with 10 T70s or 10 valentines. There gun isnít there to kill things so what if they get an extra plus 1 they already canít hit a barn door on the move! However I now have all these individual tanks (with maybe 3 hiding GtG in a wood) all spreading out hiding behind LoS blocking scenery to flank you and cause headaches.

Just food for thought.


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Last edited 09.04.2018 | Top

RE: Command distance hack

#5 by graham , Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:18 pm

I prefer to play v4 as god, sorry Phil, intended. Once we start changing the rules (as opposed to providing clarifications) we are on a slippery slope. As Santa points out, any rule interacts with others and changes can have odd knock-on effects.


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RE: Command distance hack

#6 by Arkon , Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:41 pm

To be honest I don't think that it was intended this way, but to me it seems, now thaat the search for loopholes has started Phil has no passion to overwork all the stuff that was not intended.


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RE: Command distance hack

#7 by Lynx , Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:36 am

For me it is the same way. We shouldn't change the rule. It is indeed something bothers us but hey it's the rule as written and designed by BF (Phil).
Once again we (the ETC) are supposed to be spotlight for the community so this, for me, means we are the highest level fow tournament players want to reach and this means we should play the game as it is and trying to make homemade rules.
Furthermore the committee's role is to clarify odd/unclear situation and rule on the specificity of the team feature of the ETC.

So we should stick to the rule.
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RE: Command distance hack

#8 by Arkon , Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:02 am

What ever we do, I think it becomes obvious atm what happens if you design a more or less casual ruleset and give it into the hands of competitive players.


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RE: Command distance hack

#9 by Mongol , Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:23 pm

I don't like both, morale and out of command, I was one of the guys starting that posts on FB.
But it barely would prevent me from using them as they are.
I'll be more than glad if BF would fix it somehow, but looks like it would never happen.
And modifying the rules inside ETC community would be a Pandora box opening and can lead us nowhere.
But if somebody asked me how to fix "out of command", I'll suggest that teams out of command should also be counted as independent teams in addition to all other minuses they have at the moment. Except for swapping hits =)


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RE: Command distance hack

#10 by 96mgb , Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:09 pm

While we may disagree on whether the ETc should house rule it we all seem to agree itís a poor rule and not what was intended.

Another option would be to suggest a simple change (Iíd suggest same as V3 where units starting a turn out of command have to move towards command and canít assault). If we agreed on that we could then put it to Phil as a tested and back idea from the competive community. Holds a lot more considered weight than a rant of FB thread.


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RE: Command distance hack

#11 by Mongol , Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:59 am

I think the buggiest issue about command distance is a possibility to launch assaults by separate tanks or infantry.
Re-rolls got from commander standing somewhere far away are nasty, but not such a big difference with what it used to be in V3.
So regarding that I think we just can propose Phil a short correction, that can be easily implemented via Lessons from the Front.
Just to make a short note that out of command team cannot initiate assaults, they can fight back, counterattack, but not launch assault.

It wouldn't solve everything, but at least it would be something and can be easily implemented.


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RE: Command distance hack

#12 by 96mgb , Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:17 pm

Equally just saying a unit starting itís tuen out of command can only move back towards command is simple as well.


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RE: Command distance hack

#13 by Mongol , Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:49 am

Quote: 96mgb wrote in post #12
Equally just saying a unit starting itís tuen out of command can only move back towards command is simple as well.

Suppose that will also do.
The main point is that we need to propose Phil a solution that can be easily added to LFTF


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RE: Command distance hack

#14 by Floody , Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:11 pm

Quote: Mongol wrote in post #9

And modifying the rules inside ETC community would be a Pandora box opening and can lead us nowhere.
But if somebody asked me how to fix "out of command", I'll suggest that teams out of command should also be counted as independent teams in addition to all other minuses they have at the moment. Except for swapping hits =)




You're hitting a very important point here.

Playing with specific composition rules doesn't affect any other players. If you need to practice with your list built for a very specific task that's fine. You might play some games heavily weighted one way or the other.

However, once the ETC is playing with rules that differ from that of the regular game you run into a number of problems. This was quite prevalent in 40K and caused rifts in communities.

It becomes harder for the new player to jump in, especially at tournaments. Turning up to an event and finding out some rules are different can be very off putting. I know we live in a digital age but a lot of the more casual player base are.... elderly.
The last thing FOW needs is another splitting of player bases after the V4 launch fiasco. In some areas the ETC has a bad reputation for being hyper competitive. If rules are to be changed I think a lot of consideration needs to be given to how much impact this will have on the ability to retain and more importantly recruit into existing communities.

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RE: Command distance hack

#15 by 96mgb , Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:18 pm

Itís hacks like this taking Raw to the extreme that get us this hyper competive reputation


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