Updating the rules pack and charter

#1 by 9thMD , Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:34 pm

As was suggested In another thread I think it might be helpful to channel some of this energy in a positive direction and open a thread for people to discuss what needs to be updated or changed in the rules for next year so that we don’t find ourselves in a similar situation ( I mainly view the drama this year as a failure of the rules pack on several levels).

Clearly areas that need to be elaborated on or detailed include:
- refs discretion in enforcing penalties/ rules
- detailing penalties for unwanted behavior
- what is the response for negative behavior pre or post event
- detailed victory conditions
- discussion of use of vps (as clearly half the teams weren’t entering)

Overall I feel refs should have authority to card for aggressive behavior/ arguing and infractions committed after the event should follow a player or team into the next year. I’d also like to see more aggressive application of penalties for repeated offenses and cheating behavior (right now the standard for penalizing cheating is so high as to be almost impossible to penalize... basically need videotaped evidence).

Clearly as well the charter needs to be updated to detail what happens in the event of a no confidence vote, who runs things. And update a lot of language. It also might be advisable to break a no confidence vote down by system so that ALL chairmen are not removed. Could also have language that if one system is removed the election for new chairmen will be overseen by chairs of a different system.


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#2 by Humblr , Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:56 pm

My two cents

Winning goes to
1/ capped BP (Penalties included)
2/ uncapped BP (if tie breaker needed)
3/ VP (if more tie beeaker needed)
4/ less penalties received

I would also want: red card = auto kick from current event + automatic 0-20 for the game if not finished.
If 6 games finished, ban 1 year for next year +20pts penalty.

For yellow cards = 5 points penalty.
2 yellows = 1 red (previous yellow card effects still to remain).

I also recomend 30 more minutes per game.
H


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#3 by Babnik Kalenina , Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:50 pm

VP should simply be removed from final ranking and just used for rounds pairing.
Too many players don't give a F*** about puting them properly on TK, and it's even worst in tournaments not monitored by TK!

Penalties are already included for the winning process as they decrease the total capped points

I propose as tie break, to take the result of the direct game in case they played together during the tournament.

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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#4 by Crusader PL , Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:55 pm

I would also suggest throwing out "flipinig a coin" and consider two teams receiving the same place.


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#5 by Humblr , Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:16 pm

If A and B ends equal and A won against B bit also lost 2 small times whereas B lost only to A... Wouldnt it be unfair for A to win?
BP (capped and uncapped) are here for this purpose and it has been used since the begining of ETC.
Otherwise it would be direct eliminatory (such as Roland garros), and not our current point system.

As for the flip coin, I'm not against it. Tails I win and heads you loose...
H.


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#6 by 9thMD , Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:21 pm

I actually like both suggestions

Capped bps (w penalties)
Uncapped bps
Head to head result (if applicable)
Team with fewest penalty points (if any)
Tie


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#7 by Fjugin , Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:31 pm

As far as I know, in all of ETC (fantasy) history there has never been a case where we need to go beyond first tie-breaker (assuming first tie breaker is uncapped BP). Hence I propose we stop logging VPs for a purpose that is not actually used beyond pairings. And for pairings, it's actually bad to have lots of VPs! It means you will be paired against better opponents.

Reporting VPs is just a hassle and it isn't used for any meaningful purpose. Let's remove them all together please. Will make life easier for refs, organizers, players, coaches. :D

In the unlikely event that both capped and uncapped BPs are the same, and it matter for the podium, we can use some tie-breaker that doesn't require players to report anything during the games. Strength of schedule is a good contender in my opinion. In short it is an estimate on who have faced better opponents: Just add up BPs form both team's opponents. The one with higher scoring opponents is the better team.

I.e. Winner determined by:
1. Capped BP + penalties
2. Uncapped BP (no penalties added)
3. Strength of schedule
4. Coin flip


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#8 by Scottish Knight , Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:42 pm

Just a question - why aren't penalties included at stage 2? They are a punishment for inappropriate conduct, surely they should apply at all stages?


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#9 by eggsPR , Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:45 pm

+1 Fjugin

Is it possible to add penalties to the Uncapped BPs too? This would place further emphasis to avoid incurring penalties since it hits team's where it hurts vis a vie final standings.

I.e. Winner determined by:
1. Capped BP + penalties
2. Uncapped BP + penalties
3. Strength of schedule
4. Coin flip


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#10 by 9thMD , Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:06 pm

Just as a practical matter, is strength of schedule easy to calculate quickly at the event?


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#11 by Fjugin , Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:12 pm

Heh, the only reason I didn't add penalties in #2 was because tourney keeper doesn't do it automatically for me :)

You can calculate strength of schedule for two team in less than a minute. It only becomes a lot of work if you need to do it for every team, before making each round of pairings.


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#12 by Craig Johnson , Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:16 pm

SoS is *very* easy to calculate, and TourneyKeeper already does some very similar functionality to it, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's already in.

I personally prefer VPs as you have ZERO control over SoS.

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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#13 by Babnik Kalenina , Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:03 pm

Quote: Craig Johnson wrote in post #12
SoS is *very* easy to calculate, and TourneyKeeper already does some very similar functionality to it, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's already in.

I personally prefer VPs as you have ZERO control over SoS.


VP is IMO simply the worst tie breaker ever for reasons explained here above.

I actually love the head to head result if applicable.

Norway was N°1 at VP and got 0 penalties. Would have been difficult to beat the True Norses in a tie breaker process!


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#14 by Orion , Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:11 pm

after uncapped BPs+penalties, I would have head to head BPs in the event if both teams played each other as a third tie-breaker and then SoS if needed.


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RE: Updating the rules pack and charter

#15 by Ugrush , Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:13 pm

+1 for Fjugins suggestion.

I.e. Winner determined by:
1. Capped BP + penalties
2. Uncapped BP (no penalties added)
3. Strength of schedule
4. Coin flip[/quote]

As already stated, we've never been past first tie breaker, but if we were to, I think SoS is a good tie breaker.

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