Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#1 by Chris Legg , Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:01 pm

Following the conclusion of the Ninth Age ETC 2018, it was evident that the winner of the event, was in dispute.

We have now had a chance to review the penalty spreadsheet compiled by our Referee team, as well as a detailed account of the circumstances leading up to the end of the event from both the Referee team, and Team Poland. Following this we have then held a large number of internal discussions within the relevant chairmen, of which there was significant disagreement, despite spending most of the afternoon on this topic. This ultimately culminated in a vote between the 5 chairmen who represented countries not directly linked to either party in the subject of dispute. These were-

Chris Legg - England
Isik Belul - Turkey
Fabrice - France
Jonny Fisher - Northern Ireland
Frederick Humcke - Australia

Following this vote, Jonny did not partake, and in a 3-1 majority, we are now able to announce that the winner of the Ninth Age Event at the ETC 2018 is

SPAIN

In reaching this decision, each Chairmen considered their own positions on the subject, including taking feedback from the community, as well as previous precedence at events.

At this time we are continuing to discuss the circumstances of the Judges calls during the weekend and the call for banning of specific players. A further statement will be made on these aspects shortly, in which we will also provide further comment on the reasons for the application of Penalties to Poland during round 6 and the Awards ceremony.

At this point we would also advise that the tie break system will be fully reviewed before the next event, and note that this is our final response to the question of the winner of the ETC 2018.

We wish Team Spain warm congratulations in this regard and look forwards to seeing them defend their title next year!

Chris


ETC England WFB / Ninth Age 2009 - 2019
ETC Chairman 2018-2019

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#2 by Crusader PL , Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:11 pm

Congratulations Spain! Well played!


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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#3 by FelixN , Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:38 pm

Thank you for the clarity. It is good to see that common sense has prevailed.

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#4 by Scottish Knight , Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:43 pm

Very glad to see a sensible decision. Backing the referees' decision here was the only logical step, 100% in support.


Captain - Team Scotland T9A 2019

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#5 by 9thMD , Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:55 pm

Glad to see such a measured and reasonable response from the chairmen. Thank you guys for being rational and sensible

Cheers to Team Spain! Por Favor!


2017 Team USA
2018 Team USA
2019 Team USA (c)

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#6 by James Brown , Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:52 am

Thank you Chris,

A very measured response and I believe the correct outcome.

Kind regards James Captain Team NZ


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NZ ETC Captain 2019

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#7 by Laik , Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:16 am

Hi all,

I'm a member of Team Poland for last couple of years.
I'd like to write my personal opinion about points calculation.
On single events there're total points (big points + hobby - penalties) if there's a tie then tie breakers are big points and small points in that order.

In Team events there're also capped points that are more important than the uncapped ones.

We've scored most points, won all games, including direct game against Spain, from top 5 we haven't played only against Belgium

Results of this tournament were decided not during games but at the referee table - first by applying last minute penalty point and then deciding about tie breakers based on I do not know what (they still didn't provided answer) but for sure not on the rules.

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#8 by Corky , Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:27 am

Hi Thomas

While i do agree that Head-to-Head or Strength og Schedule is a better tiebreaker than Uncappedpoints, the VP have never been a tiebreaker over Uncapped points, and if it was proposed to captains and not just a copypaste mistake, i would like to know when and where this happened.

The penalty after the tournament was for 2 yellow cards, a penalty Denmark received aswell - it was not some random penalty!


9th age: Danish Captain 2018

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#9 by lagerlof , Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:34 am

@Laik

Uncapped BP were the tie-breaker last year for third spot between three different countries.

If VPs were tie-breaker, how do you explain the fact that Poland did not enter the VPs correctly for every single game that they played? Also, Spain did the same and their top scorer had maybe 10 % of the VPs he should have.

Also, there were no random penalties, 2 yellow cards = -1 BP at the end of the tournament. This was known.

//Lagerlof,
Team Sweden 2018
Head Judge 2017

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#10 by Laik , Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:42 am

Of course It was last year - because all 3 teams had same amount of capped points - that is why they've decided
What I just learned is that uncapped points are more important than the capped ones - still don't know why (?)...

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#11 by lagerlof , Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:50 am

@Laik

I think there has to be some misunderstanding?

Poland and Spain had the same amount of Capped Points, 566 BP. Poland had 567 before getting -1 BP for Yellow Cards.

So you ended up on the same amount of Capped Points, and then Uncapped points was used a Tie-break and Spain won.

Poland got another -1 BP while arguing with the refs during the award ceremony. So that's why they have 1 BP less than Spain on the Capped Points as well.

Does that answer it? Otherwise I am missing something as well.

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#12 by Laik , Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:08 pm

Penalties are not counted to capped points - if they would they would change pairings, they count to total points - or am I missing something?
Poland had 569 capped points, Spain 568.

Second penalty were given long after the tournament was finished (during award ceremony Fjugin was busy deciding who will win the tournament and throwing rulespack at the table) - question if I say something wrong now will it be penalized and counted toward tournament result?

I still don't know why uncapped points are more important - I thought that they're introduced to make the tournament more fair - seems like we're also penalized by playing stronger teams.

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#13 by Corky , Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:10 pm

Offcourse penalties are counted toward capped points! - else it would only be a tiebreaker.


9th age: Danish Captain 2018

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#14 by Laik , Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:14 pm

Quote: Corky wrote in post #13
Offcourse penalties are counted toward capped points! - else it would only be a tiebreaker.

They count to total points - which made a draw, they don't count to capped points as it would change pairings - if I'm wrong please point it out in rules.

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RE: Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - including winner

#15 by AndersTeamSwe , Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:15 pm

I think the reason why the yellow cards are counted so late is because no country should be able to take advantage of how many yellow cards an opponent has. I know I asked a ref regarding how many yellow cards a country had and I got the answer that they would not disclose that information for that reason.

Irregardless, I'm glad that yellow cards for once actually mattered, maybe next year players who regularly receive them will behave. Sweden has participated in every ETC and have never gotten a single yellow card, it is honestly not that hard.

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ETC 2018 conclusions
Team Poland Statement re: ETC 2018

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