RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#91 by 96mgb , Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:24 am

We discussed this. No itís 1 card only. We donít want a whole list of this card and this card is exempt come Dec we can relook if there is major issues (ie people canít form lists etc).. There is a case for scout due to the rule that all eligible units need it and Iíll post that up in the committee group to look at.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#92 by M1le , Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:44 am

Quote: 96mgb wrote in post #83

- the match up is likely to remain similar to last year but stances assigned before before match up but hidden until all match ups are complete.



This is way too random and takes away a lot of the tactics made before the pairing process. This years pairing process in my opinion worked perfectly fine and offered a good amount of level of strategy in the match up department.

Making the match ups with no known stances before hand just makes the whole pairing process too random as you can't really control who will attack, defend as the opposing teams stances are unknown. IMO this will make for some frustrating match ups. So even if you prepare really well for the match ups, you can get screwed by some unknown random factor. In general this seems like a bad idea to us. Please reconsider.

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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#93 by 96mgb , Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:25 pm

Rest assured this is already discussed at length already and all committee memebers have agreed it. Also remember that whatever system is picked there will some people who donít like it.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#94 by M1le , Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:06 pm

I understand that not everyone will be happy, but I have to emphasize that you are now just adding another random item to the pairing process which didn't need fixing to begin with. More randomness ... as we don't have enough of that in dice rolls :-).

Last year the Facebook group from the committee was open to the public for reading purposes only and transparency. If it's open this year as well, please share the link.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#95 by 96mgb , Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:24 pm

Last year it was opened after discussions and it will be this year.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#96 by M1le , Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:51 pm

Sounds good. Please don't take my comment in an ill hearten manner, just want to input my thoughts before it would be too late (even if you don't take them into account). Much respect to all of the committee sacrificing their free time in providing a viable rules pack.

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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#97 by Mongol , Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:05 am

Quote: 96mgb wrote in post #86
Yes.

As I say there are the odd occasion with list that it would limit (eg scout)but it stops spam and we donít want a long list of x number of this card or y number of this card being allowed. Idea is to make it simple and encourage variety.

So you're fighting spam list with limiting cards?
I can still take 30+ conscript stuarts, but can't take 15 trained?
I can take Italian spam (30+ tanks), but can't downgrade two German pak38 units to 6pdr?
I can take German/Italian/British recon spam, but can't take panzerknacker two times?
I don't know what you're trying to achieve guys.

You're digging inside of one of the core games functionalities to fix what is not broken.
For the past days I've got statistics from Italian, Serbian and Russian tournaments and none was won by spam list, and still you're trying to "fix" it.

What would be next? You'll limit units usage 'cause they would seem "unfair" to you?
Why not make it "no more than 8 KVs per team''?
Would be just in spirit of restrictions WHFB and WH40K had.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#98 by ReBrock , Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:13 am

Hello there guys!
Just wanted to check how is the rule pack developing and I was a little shocked by the fact that you are thinking of limiting the use of command cards... this is really a bad idea! The use of some command cards is already restricted by BF with the word limited on them. All this cards you can use now alcrually cost points and they make a big difference in the number of units you can take on the table. In my opinion, limiting the ďunlimitedĒ usage of cards is a bad idea. As some of the US players noted, some US lists just become useless, and so you will have even less varation and diversity at the table. Everyone will play germans and russians. Actually Italians are much better than germans but that is a different discusion. I think that sticking to the BFí command card limitation is great. And then as a side note, limit the use of one formation per list, everything is in balance. I was planning in going for Cannes this year, but then I saw this limitation there also and realised that my list will not be playable there, so not going there anymore.
Maybe to give you an example of why this unit upgrade cards are well thought of in my opinion: i can take 5 stuarts in a platoon reckelss for 10 points. I can upgrade them for 2 more points to become aggresive and have 16.66% more chances to stay allive with a 16.66% increase in points value. I donít find anything bad in this! Please save the aggresive Stuarts!

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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#99 by Angelfred , Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:07 pm

Don't want to spoil oïl on water, yet I understand some comments here.
I do agree that limiting cards may be in order to prevent spamming of Formations.
I believe there is a very efficient way to do it : consider cards that are similar and draw some sort of diagram to pin-point how many of those can you take.
For instance, the German Armored Cars : there are currently 2, potential 3 with Kursk, card allowing German players to field German Armored Cars formations.
Yes, they are different per se (a DAK Armored Cars unit is not an Eastern Front Armored Cars unit (not the same organization, etc.)), yet they are very close to be honest.
So it would make sense to state only 1 Formation of this type is allowed, as per others Formations.

Yet, I do think that you can't limit certain cards because :
- it isn't the way BF planned them : for instance, using Fighting First, you can only field a "Green" Armored Rifle Company. BF doesn't make a "Trained" version and a "Veteran" version because it will lead to more pages published, while a single card allow players to field it. A card allow you to field a "Veteran" Armored Rifle Company, there is no point in stating only 1 platoon can be upgrade that way. For the records, not disclosing anything, but working on Kursk, BF explained us why they prefer making card to depict new Formation instead of Formation being comprehensively depicted in the book (for the sake of both clarity and costs). So it appear clear limitation here is not in order.
- certain cards force you to spam it. For instance, the "Scout" card for the British Crusader and Stuart. You HAVE to select the card for all units. You can't select only one. So if cards are limited to one by the rulespack... how can such cards can be plaid ?

On a general pattern, I don't believe there are "broken" cards at the moment.
Some are good, some are very good, some are OK, some are poor, some are circumstancial, yet looking at what had been published so far... nothing too shiny IMHO.

Also, concerning the pairings, I agree with M1le : pair up process is fully part of the ETC.
It's a team event, so it shall be plaid as such.
It also counterbalances the fact that your 6 players can't bring what they want and have to make concessions for the team, so it legit to have some sort of balancing process.
The pair up process was done in 2018 prove to be very efficient and fair.
I don't see a point in changing it.

Cheers from France,

Fred

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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#100 by Mongol , Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:39 am

by the way

Quote: 96mgb wrote in post #83
- web units allowed. BF have stayed these will be added to forces.

What web units are you talking about?
Planned airborne release or fans made cards for units?
Like on this page?
https://flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=6088


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#101 by Angelfred , Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:28 pm

@Mongol : I understand fan made units (Bishop, Matilda...).
Nothing too fancy to be honest and certainly not game breaking...

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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#102 by Mongol , Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:38 pm

Quote: Angelfred wrote in post #101
@Mongol : I understand fan made units (Bishop, Matilda...).
Nothing too fancy to be honest and certainly not game breaking...

Ohm, I have nothing against these cards. It's always fun to have more units.
Actually I have nothing against any cards, unlike our committee
I was just a bit surprised to learn that BF is going to add them to Forces.
As Gregg knows nothing about that plans.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#103 by 96mgb , Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:51 pm

BF said getting them added to forces want a priority but would happen. They also said if it was reaching a time when they need to be there for ETC lists then to remind them as it doesnít take long.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#104 by Trick , Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:55 am

Team Australia votes for no restriction on cards...why bother...the rest of the proposed rules and points are good and will restrict some of the Spamming anyway.

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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#105 by 96mgb , Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:20 pm

Trick when the rules pack is released captains will get a chance to vote for it or reject it same as last year. The whole point of the committee is that they are trusted to make the pack. Getting a unanimous agreement for the headlines in the draft pack is tough just for our small group imagine if every line was voted on by everybody!

Remember the rules for cards eg limited etc are all looking at single armies they are not designed for a team format. What we are trying to do is adapt what is an incrediably loose army building system to something that provides the structure for a team debate. As stated isnít the post this is a draft and we have quite a while until the final rule pack is presented.


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