RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#16 by NickFoxtrot , Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:36 pm

I was not expecting the willingness to go with less restrictions hence what I originally proposed. But love the new direction!

- 2 nation limit seems fair given the limited nations

- the command card proposal by Team Wales of "you can only have 1 set of captured 25pdr per team, 1 lucky, 1 armoured car formation etc etc. exception being when for card formation is made up of multiple core card choices. Eg a Cossack formation would not be limited to a single Cossack pltn card however only 1 Cossack formation could be taken." is spot on.

- the the attack, maneuver and defend plans, the allocation of these could be done after the pairing is complete. I could lead to everyone playing different missions or it could follow this sequence:
1 - Armies are paired up using the existing system
2 - Mission is announced after pairings
3 - Teams then secretly allocate all their posture cards
4 - Teams reveal posture cards determining who attacks and who defends
5 - Play the games


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#17 by Bosje , Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:53 pm

Here's my thoughts about what we should do for next year


- 1 list per book, if no minor nations come out 1 book may be doubled
- if there are Mech lists in either of the new books we keep the 2/2/2, otherwise we go 3/3
- max 2 (maybe 3) formations per player, no double formations. Main formation should be biggest percentage wise and should have the support units
- max # of cards per formation/player and a max # of points for the cards if we are using the cards
- pairing is done first, after pairing of the armies battleplans are attached. Simplify the matrix so that each box has a different mission per round or per day which has been decided on before the tournament

Think that is all, but if I/team NL think of other things we'll edit :)


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#18 by Mike (Santa) Klaka , Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:15 pm

There have been very few MW competitions in the UK so far and obviously none with Eastern Front Lists. We have seen some of the stuff coming out in the first books but do not know what cards might be duplicated or be very similar when the second set comes out. I think it is a bit too early to prepare a rulespack, especially in respect of cards. We do not know what the newer cards will be called or their effect. We also have the possibility of Digital style/pdf type releases which may complicate things a lot.

I am certainly going to sit down and relax for a bit and see what MW looks like once some of the EF the books and cards are out and people start playing with the bigger range of lists. It does not matter much if people can have two or even three fairly similar lists as long as those lists are not massively advantageous.

It should not take long to put a rulespack together, maybe we should agree first it will be MW and maybe 100 points?

Mike


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#19 by NickFoxtrot , Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:45 pm

Mike raises an excellent point... points!

We have played and held mid war events with great success. we have never held an event of 100 points

The lowest point level that makes lists viable is 80 lower than that and you wont see many tank lists especially with eastern front coming out.

The sweet spot seems to be between 85-95 points. This gives all list a good selection of options and support. It also limits the number of cards taken.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#20 by Arkon , Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:41 pm

As Mike said, far to early to talk about the rulespack for 2019. I would say if we start practicing MW V4 we should go with 100 points inkl. cards with no restriction. Should be no unsolvable problem to lower points to maybe 95 if the vote is like that


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#21 by wyrm , Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:55 pm

I would like to propose to go ahead with some milestones:
1) 100 points, for the time being
2) have teams start playing and gain XP with MW and the new books.
3) collect the major issues and discuss (februar-ish)
4) recommend rules / points and restrictions (mid-march)
5) retest
6) finalize rulespack (end of April)

Without knowing the new books, any ruleset created now just screams for reevaluation. And big fights of "but we already bought an army based on last months rules".


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#22 by Arkon , Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:38 am

To me there is at least one thing we have to decide/vote about now, point level.

It doesnt help that we start our trial runs at lets say 100 point including cards and find it balanced and then vote on a different point level just to find that on this level some armies just don't work.

Any thoughts?


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#23 by M1le , Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:49 am

IMHO the pairing system worked well this year and there was a lot of strategy involved so I would keep it, otherwise it's way too random.
So:
- I would keep that everybody plays the same mission,
- each team shows their battle plans to the other team before the pairings.

2 nation limit seems reasonable, but other than that it's to early for me to say what's broken or not because I haven't played MW at all.

Regards, Milan


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#24 by Arkon , Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:55 am

To be honest, I wasn't happy with the pairing system and we should talk about this in detail. But for sure we don't need to do that now as in my opinion it doesn't influence the choise of lists.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#25 by redvark , Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:51 am

I know this was the subject of some debate on Sunday evening amongst the Danes, French and Scots

I second Helge's idea of a rulespack committee, I think they did a great job this year

The concern raised on Sunday was about the overpowering of lists from earlier books by the newer ones and we need to take peoples concerns about this seriously and give people a fair and open hearing. I think a few people on here know I'm not a v4 fan, but if the purest form of v4 (which is what v4 is) is seen as broken by some then actually we have a bigger problem than choice of period, so we should engage in a process to try and get a set of workable tournament rules.


I think Helge's suggestion of a limit on the cards is a really really good one, for me the cards allowing players to overcome good play by their opponent simply by expending a small percentage of their list point are one of the most irritating and objectionable parts of the game

happy to help in any way possible


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#26 by wyrm , Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:00 am

True, I don't have many v4-MW games under my belt, but the cards are giving the flair to the otherwise basic lists.
Without the cards, most lists will be the same, because of limited options.
But this was the aim of BF: have the basic lists with mostly plastic boxes, and then individualize with cards and special choices.
Any playtest they have performed did take this into account.

Nonetheless, I do think it would be a poor decision now, without the information on the new books and possible PDFs.

I fear, this would be like WFB a couple years ago, where the rulespack was modified every month.

On the other hand, I too, would take part in the commitee.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#27 by graham , Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:28 pm

If a rules committee is created again, I'd be willing to work on it.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#28 by 96mgb , Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:07 pm

In regard to the cards I have then and Iím allowed to talk about them now. For those who havenít seen them the key cards are on breakthrough assault for both sides. I donít think there is anything world changing in then there is no sudden change of direction.

All decisions should be on the understanding that there wonít be a minor nation book in time for ETC. If there is bonus but itís unlikely given the release schedule.

I think the committee should be formed at the end of the month. No is no rush for the rulepack but it allows them to start chatting and perhaps give some ideas for testing for things to be tried and tweaked as the pack develops.

All I can say is that Iíve okayed plenty of EF V4 and I have no concerns. Yes you have some powerful tanks like T34s but they are pointed accordingly and while they will crush certain lists they will be crushed by others. Same as always in FoW. The missions and points and player skill are a great leveler. Fear not.


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#29 by 96mgb , Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:08 pm

Perhaps it would be helpful for the OP to update the starting post with names of volunteers for the committee?


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RE: Midwar 2019 rulespack

#30 by Mike (Santa) Klaka , Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:40 pm

Just a Thought

According to the usual rotation it should be MW in 2019.

If we go with MW we are going to have to sort out Rulespack before we have seen a significant set of Army Lists and cards, or at best/worst we may have these coming out quite late in spring or early summer. In 2020 it will be LW and we may have even bigger problems if 'new style' (100 point type) lists are starting to come out.

Would it be better to do EW, EW, MW. MW, LW, LW type rotation to give BF a chance to 'get in front' of ETC?

It would mean a second year of EW (we just had the first) which some people don't like so much but would make it much easier to sort out rulespacks etc and be more organised.

Personally I am happy to play MW but before we go to far do we all want to think about this?

Mike


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