Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#1 by James Brown , Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:19 am

It saddens to me to write this given the end of what was an absolutely amazing ETC. To see the disgraceful behaviour from Poland which amounted to disrespect for the event, arguing with the refs and not accepting the result not even coming up on stage followed by Konrads behaviours towards a refs wife was completely unacceptable.

Having flown thousands of miles to an event that behaviour leaves a sour taste. There is winning and then there is winning the right way.

I would like to call for a Captains vote to ban Konrad from nexts years event.

James - Captain Team New Zealand


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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#2 by Blonde Beer , Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:14 am

I'll need a statement from both sides to bring to my team before I can support the request or not as captain.

Besides that, I find the attacking of anyone about a bloody game with Toy soldiers so bizar that any bad behaviour should be punished on or off the tables. Taking a crap on someones partner? Why was that needed? I bring my own wife and Child as well and I want them to feel safe at event.

PS
The online mudslinging on Social Media is something that makes the entire hobby look bad. Discuss it here as captains and then take action as is needed.


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Last edited 08.06.2018 | Top

RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#3 by Manfro , Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:05 pm

Quote: Blonde Beer wrote in post #2

I'll need a statement from both sides to bring to my team before I can support the request or not as captain.



This.

I would not want to turn everything into a witch hunt, which could create dangerous precedents


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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#4 by Krokz , Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:02 am

Quote: Blonde Beer wrote in post #2
I'll need a statement from both sides to bring to my team before I can support the request or not as captain.

+1

I would also like a full rundown of all the penalties for all countries from the refs and their side of story about Poland.


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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#5 by Ugrush , Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:52 am

+1, I need a official statement from captains of directly affected teams and/or refs about the situation as we ourselves were not directly affected.

That being said, it is 3/3 years I've been part of the ETC this has been an issue, it is time something is done to fix this situation.

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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#6 by Fjugin , Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:53 pm

I was judge at ETC, and it is my wife that is mentioned above. She has requested to not be part of this discussion.

The ref team is currently writing a statement on the controversy between (parts of) team Poland and the ref team. This will be sent to chairmen as soon as we are finished with it. This will however mostly focus on the discussions on team penalties and tie-breakers, not much on bad behavior from their captain. I.e. the events and decisions leading up to the incident this thread is about. You will have to wait a bit to get that part of the story.

Anyway, the events relevant for this discussion is the following: During the award ceremony, shortly after the ref-team's decision that Poland will take the 2nd place, which I announced to them, their captain (Konrad) is visibly very angry with the refs, and I think specifically with me. He comes up to at least one player in the Swedish team (I am Swedish) and slanders me. He does the same to my wife, steps up to her, move in closely and basically tells her I am a horrible human being. I have seen rumors that say he got physical. These rumors are not true.
He steps up to me in a more threatening manner than to the others (physical contact, similar to what a drunk person would do when he wants to innate a fist fight), and verbally insults me (I don't recall the exact words, sorry). He pauses for a second while I struggle to find words to respond, and before I can he walks off. But it was without a doubt the type of thing that should have been an instant red card if it happened during the tournament. Another ref was standing next to me and witnessed the situation. At this time we did not know he had approached anyone besides me.
(PS, the order of these encounters is unknown to anyone but Konrad afaik)

Shortly after we decide we cannot let this behavior slide and give him a yellow card. Yellow instead of a red because at this point in time it's the harsher penalty (red card mean you are not allowed to play anymore, but tournament is over so there is no more playing). Konrad is no longer at the Venue so we cannot approach him with this, and I have not talked to him since.


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Last edited 08.07.2018 | Top

RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#7 by James Brown , Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:22 pm

Absolutely donít want this to be a witch hunt but the standard we set ourselves for the game we play.

I am hoping it doesnít need to come to a vote and Poland will do the honourable thing as a team. If that was one of my Team NZ players it would be a life ban for letting down the team and the reputation of our country. Letís see if they have the courage to do whatís right.


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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#8 by AndersTeamSwe , Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:26 pm

Team Sweden is behind the idea of something needing to be done in regards to what happened at the end of the tournament and we share James thoughts on the matter.

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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#9 by Gundizalbo , Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:42 pm

Hello.

I was a referee but I wasn't there because I had to go a bit earlier. But I hear the story and I would like to give my personal opinion.

In this case, I can easily understand why Konrad and Poland was upset. I am not saying that this behaviour is acceptable, but I do think is not the standard manners of the team (based in what I saw during the tournament). Of course this action deserved a huge penalty, but only on this ETC.

I am sure that Konrad won't do the same again, I trust in him a lot and I am sure next year team Poland will have really good manners. I don't like to see someone destroyed just for one passionate mistake.

I want to say sorry to everyone because there is a huge mistake on tournament pack that started this situation, and as referee I should noted this before the tournament. I also want to say thanks to all other referees, they done a great job I am really proud being part of the team.

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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#10 by Chris Legg , Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:04 am

At the moment we have asked the referee team for a full review of the event (and this issue specifically). At this stage we then plan to release a statement of the issue as we see it, and from then on make any further recommendations if we feel appropriate.

We will endevour to get this issued as soon as possible, although the practicalities of this may mean that we are looking at a week of so to do this.


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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#11 by niras , Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:41 am

Is it true that after all matches have been played, point was taken away from them (and not even from the last match)?
Is it true that even though they had as many points as Spain, and even more big points they were given 2nd place? Against the tournament regulations?
Is it true that you denied any explanation and deleted posts?

It looks like a witch hunt.

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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#12 by Blonde Beer , Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:20 am

I don't think any posts have been deleted here. On the T9A forum pretty much all posts for this topic were removed with the request to have this discussion here, and not there.


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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#13 by SmithF , Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:30 am

Whether the judges' decision was right or not should not be a part of this discussion, if what's under scrutiny is the failure of some people to behave like adults. Verbally insulting someone on the street is considered a crime in most civilized countries (even if we rarely go to court about such stuff), and it should not be allowed at the ETC either.

I would not dismiss this as a small issue. As an ETC player, I want to be sure that being in the venue is safe, and that anyone can bring their friends and family to watch the event and share the fun.


Smith


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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#14 by Chris Legg , Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:28 am

Quote: niras wrote in post #11
Is it true that after all matches have been played, point was taken away from them (and not even from the last match)?
Is it true that even though they had as many points as Spain, and even more big points they were given 2nd place? Against the tournament regulations?
Is it true that you denied any explanation and deleted posts?

It looks like a witch hunt.



Hi,

At the event itself the referee team were given the authority to make decisions on the spot. As my post indicated, we have asked them for their account of the situation (explained outside the heated situation) and will provide a full response when we have this.

No posts have been deleted here regarding this topic.


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RE: Captainís Vote - Poland behaviour

#15 by Razon , Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:13 am

On T9A forum there were some accusations of plain cheating too. And now this, unsporting conduct to say the least.
So, either way we (the community) have a problem. Witch hunting and slander as one possibility, and cheating and physical threats as other.

I really hope the Chairmen will take this very seriously. And punish the offenders accordingly, setting the example for other to follow. Please root out all the rotten egs from our community!

For example, the person(s) that accused other player(s) of cheating, either he gets a one year ETC ban, if he is found to be slandering. Or the accused players get a life ban, if the accusation is true. No third option!

The same with this accusation, of verbal/ physical threats; either the accuser gets a one year ban (I don't care if it is Fjugin we are talking about; the co-creator of T9A, Head judge and other titles he holds); or the accused (Konrad, Polish captain and star player) gets a life ban.


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Chairmen Statement on the ETC 2018 - Ban Proposal for Konrad
ETC 2018 conclusions

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