RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#31 by ReBrock , Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:11 pm

Quote: Rugi wrote in post #30
1.) Actually, if you put the infantry in ambush together with its attachment (in this case the transport platoon) you have to deploy them mounted!
Same goes for guns.

2.) If you opt to not put them together in the ambush then you cannot deploy them anymore as they cannot get within 6" of the infantry command team. And even if you could deploy them they would be sent to the rear at the end of any movement phase when the transport commander cannot get within 6" of the infantry command team.


Well this is why I'm asking this here, because it is clear that there is a lack of explanation here in the rule. Being able to deploy the transport on the table, with the unit in ambush, is impossible as the unit leader isn't visible on the table to be in 6" of the transport leader. This is why I was thinking that maybe there should be a rule amendment saying that if the transport is on the table and the unit in ambush, then you have to pop the ambush with unit's command in 6" of the transport leader. Otherwise, the rule makes no sense, as you stated, you can't deploy them, but the rule at page 95 clearly states that you can. Wonder what BF thinks of this... why make a rule that can't be used...?! And I think that LFTF addresses the problem of staying in command when both platoons of the unit are on the table, and not when one is in ambush and the other is deployed.

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Last edited 07.09.2018 | Top

RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#32 by graham , Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:49 am

ReBrock - I've wondered about that myself. Either interpretation could work.

Time is getting a bit short to add another clarification though. I've reminded Jonny to call a vote on the existing document. If enough people quickly (today?) show support for one interpretation or the other on the ambush/transport thing then I could add it. Otherwise, I think we'll have to leave it to the players to sort out.


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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#33 by ReBrock , Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:58 am

One interpretation I find acceptable is that, as the ambush platoon is considered to be already there, the transport platoon can move in the deployment zone or the leader of the transport platoon to stay in 6 inches of the deployment zone. Then, when you pop the ambush platoon you check to see if the leaders are within 6 inches and los. If yes, the transports stay on the table, if not they go off table.

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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#34 by Tim Harris , Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:59 am

Don't agree with your ruling on infantry and gun teams are always in BP cover on a rocky hill. Makes sense for Direct Fire (DF) but In Direct Fire (IDF) just seems a bit gamey to me. (God forbid gamey at an ETC)

DF means that rocky outcrops will give teams cover to hide behind. IDF (especially if air burst) is falling from above, so those same outcrops of rock won't protect you?

Just my thoughts


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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#35 by DaveM , Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:42 pm

I find myself agreeing with Tim (quick, where's the cool, dark room!).

BP cover on hills should only apply to DF weapons and that template hits are treated as if in the open. Clearly teams that have used a movement order to dig in continue to get BP cover even under templates.

Ambushing transport platoons. This seems to be one of those "law of unexpected consequences". Previously the transports were integral to the platoon such as Pzgdr's but now those SD's are treated as a platoon in their own right. I'm not really comfortable with the 1/2 tracks being in ambush while their passengers are on table, but if that is what the rule allows, then I agree the transport leader must be deployed within cmd distance of the infantry platoon cmd.

Bagpiper effect should not apply to hits scored by template weapons. OK for effect to apply vs DF weapons (i.e. 6 hits to pin rather than 5)


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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#36 by graham , Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:21 am

Dave, Tim

If there is no disagreement from elsewhere, I could alter the ruling to be (changes are underlined):

Infantry and gun teams on rocky hills are always in bulletproof cover from Shooting but not Bombardment and infantry and gun teams are in bulletproof cover from Shooting but not Bombardment on any hill when concealed from the Shooting team by that hill.

I have again asked Jonny to launch a vote on the clarifications because if we don't do it soon all this is a waste of time.


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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#37 by Tim Harris , Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:33 pm

Looks good Graham


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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#38 by graham , Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:36 am

OK, I've introduced the change requested by Tim and Dave. Here is the new version:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1isGto7R...iew?usp=sharing


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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#39 by 96mgb , Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:03 am

Graham on the vote you say that teams when dug in within short terrain are concealed from aircraft. Page 30 of the Lw/EW rule book says dug in teams are not concealed from aircraft (short terrain or not). What was the reasoning for this?

Completely agree with the dug in vs hill ruling its just the aircraft is specifically noted as not being concealed from.


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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#40 by Rugi , Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:30 pm

Quote: ReBrock wrote in post #31
Quote: Rugi wrote in post #30
1.) Actually, if you put the infantry in ambush together with its attachment (in this case the transport platoon) you have to deploy them mounted!
Same goes for guns.

2.) If you opt to not put them together in the ambush then you cannot deploy them anymore as they cannot get within 6" of the infantry command team. And even if you could deploy them they would be sent to the rear at the end of any movement phase when the transport commander cannot get within 6" of the infantry command team.


Well this is why I'm asking this here, because it is clear that there is a lack of explanation here in the rule. Being able to deploy the transport on the table, with the unit in ambush, is impossible as the unit leader isn't visible on the table to be in 6" of the transport leader. This is why I was thinking that maybe there should be a rule amendment saying that if the transport is on the table and the unit in ambush, then you have to pop the ambush with unit's command in 6" of the transport leader. Otherwise, the rule makes no sense, as you stated, you can't deploy them, but the rule at page 95 clearly states that you can. Wonder what BF thinks of this... why make a rule that can't be used...?! And I think that LFTF addresses the problem of staying in command when both platoons of the unit are on the table, and not when one is in ambush and the other is deployed.


Since the rule on pg. 95 was written at the same time as when the transports were still a completely seperate unit and could rome the earth completely on their own, it makes sense this rule exists. This was found too be too much (thank goodnes) which is why the errata eliminates this.
In the light of the errata the rule on Pg. 95 becomes obsolete in regards to transports, but is still relevant for any non-transport attachment units.

However, you could technically still place the transports on the table, move them anywhere you'd like and then send them to the rear at the end of the movement phase. No idea how one could benedit from this but hey...

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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#41 by ReBrock , Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:53 am

Rugi, you might be right, but Im still waiting for an official LFTF ammendment of this rule or atleast some BF official saying that the rule on page 95 is obsolete. I keep wondering why make a new V4 rule set that basically ruins the old system and not just make a V4 rule set that fixes issues like reserves, airplane, etc. I dont get it why do you take out command and staff teams and other cool details?! Why just make tanks long and short?! And if uou do that, why make a LFTF that simply erases the V4?! Why not make V5 and lets move on...

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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#42 by Rugi , Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:25 am

LFTF update before the ETC on this topic is very unlikely though.

On FoW facebook Phil's reply to this matter was:
" Interesting.

Attachments and Ambushes is a general statement, but It's not relevant to Transports with the Unit Transport rule as bringing them on at the start of the game before the infantry appear in ambush. That would make the Transports be Sent to the Rear before they could do anything anyway.

The note is there for things that are more in the style of infantry fighting vehicles where they were sometimes formed into a separate vehicle group which doesn't have to stick with the unit (no Unit Transport rule)."


And in regards to which other units the rule on page 95 could apply:
" It's more relevant to say the BMP-1 of Team Yankee that was sometimes formed into a Bronegruppe to give the infantry tank support in defensive positions. The infantry dug in and the BMP detachment fought as an anti-tank mobile reserve."

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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#43 by ReBrock , Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:27 pm

Ye, problem solved, you were right, silly BF failed again :)... Rules are there to be obsolete someone said :)

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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#44 by Tenente Paco , Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:43 pm

This is going to sound a bit stupid but... will assaulting team in hills be in bulletproof cover during DF?


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RE: v4 Rules Clarifications for ETC

#45 by Rugi , Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:19 pm

One is never in BPC during defensive fire. (don't have the rulebook with me to give you the pg. though)

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