ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#1 by pizzaguardian , Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:44 pm

Thanks to graham for preserving this,

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nZgpC3...ScQMWSt4aOy4n1N

Edit: File updated.


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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#2 by Doktor Helge , Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:40 pm

the text in the rulespack has not been updated yet


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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#3 by pizzaguardian , Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:52 pm

Yes it hasnt been, if somebody does update the file and link it that would be nice.


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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#4 by graham , Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:49 pm

I've sent a revised rulespack to Pizza and Jonny.


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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#5 by Mongol , Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:23 am

Guys, I couldn't find it in the rulepack, are there limitations on what version of LFTF we use?
Today a new version was realized and there are some important changes there.


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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#6 by Doktor Helge , Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:43 pm

Personally I Think it is too late for the layers LFTF, but practically it is Going to be a bit Of a mess.. using rules not updated


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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#7 by Adamastor , Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:04 pm

Isn't the usual deadline for LFTF updates the date we have ti send the lists? If so, I'd say this latest update its still valid (probably the last one that is so for this year).

On another note, I'm only seeing 13 teams have paid for FOW. Where is everyone else (the list had 20 confirmed teams)?


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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#8 by graham , Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:08 pm

Quote: Mongol wrote in post #5
Guys, I couldn't find it in the rulepack, are there limitations on what version of LFTF we use?
Today a new version was realized and there are some important changes there.


Page 2 of the rulespack: "FAQs (Lessons from the front) published after June 30, 2018 will be ignored for this event. /
Rules: Flames of War Version 4
"


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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#9 by Tim Harris , Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:05 pm

Graham.

Did you mean to say that teams are concealed to aircraft if dug in?

Page 54 of the v4 rulebook is quite specific.

Concealment and Aircraft

Only target Teams seen through Tall terrain (including Buildings, Hills, and sSmoke) within 4"/10cm of the target Team are Concealed from Shooting Aircraft.

Further more Concealed in flat terrain (pg 53) is written as follows

Flat Terrain does not provide Concealment, except for Infantry Teams that did not move (even if they Dug In) and Gun Teams that are in Foxholes. These Teams are Concealed from all enemy Teams except Aircraft.


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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#10 by 96mgb , Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:10 pm

Agree Tim and in the Lw/EW rulebook on p30 it specifically says dug in teams are not concealed from aircraft. I am unsure why we are chancing something that is so clear. I think itís got caught up in the whole dug in short scenery and hills thing, however air is different and mentioned very specifically.


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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#11 by Mike (Santa) Klaka , Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:11 pm

Tim and 96

I think the ETC Rulespack refers to troops that are dug in IN short terrain, not looking through short terrain into an area beyond. This situation is more specific than the rules you are quoting.
It is also a tad late to raise this on the day the vote is due to finalise but no doubt it can be looked at for next year.

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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#12 by 96mgb , Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:23 pm

Mike this is why I think itís a mistake and not what wasnít previously discussed. There has never been any confusion about aircraft and dug in vs short terrain only vs shooting from hills and buildings (tallterraon).The rule pack is bang on with that and thatís what the discussion was about.

There is no doubt from the rules that teams when dug in are NOT concealed from aircraft either in the open or short terrain. Itís specifically says they arenít eg p30 in the Lw/ew book.

As I say I think the word aircraft just needs to be dropped I think itís got lumped in with the sound decision on talk vs the whole dug in/short terrain.

Aircraft are a very different matter.

Iíd imagine some captains folllwed the discussion and the sensible decision about tall terrain and might have missed this in the vote somehow air has slipped in.

As I say I wonder if this is a mistake.


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Last edited 07.18.2018 | Top

RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#13 by graham , Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:48 am

Mark, Tim,

It was not my intention to change the rules with any of these clarifications.

As Mark points, out page 31 of the rulebook (please refer only to the EW/LW rulebook) says ďOnly target Teams seen through Tall terrain (including Buildings, Hills, and Smoke) within 4"/10cm of the target Team are Concealed from Shooting Aircraft.Ē I therefore think you are right. Apologies for the error.

So what do we do about this? We just voted on the clarifications. We could stick with that version or we could fix it.

if we want to fix it then we should delete the words "and from aircraft" from the ruling below:
ETC Ruling Ė Infantry and Gun Teams that are Dug-In in Short Terrain are concealed to troops shooting from Tall Terrain and from Aircraft.

I think it is worth fixing. Let's see what others want to do.


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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#14 by Mike (Santa) Klaka , Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:51 am

This is a non-issue.
Mark (96) is not coming to the event (unless he is using a different name)
Tim does have aircraft in his list but they are only armed with bombs, no direct fire weapons and concealment does not feature when utilising a template.
A shed load of Team Captains have voted to accept the amendment; OK Graham missed a bit in the rules but it is a very minor point so lets just live with it.

There are 20 teams of 6 players each playing 6 rounds so 360 games - I am prepared to bet that this issue does not come up even once - who wants to use MG or Cannon in direct fire at a dug in gun/infantry team? If I was playing (I am a non playing coach) I would be encouraging my oppo to waste his aircraft by Direct firing at such a target rather than using a bomb = hey I would even waive the dice roll to hit !!!

If any of the aircraft were Tank Busters with just AT guns I suppose it might have made a difference but they had not been invented in EW (and you would prefer to use your aircraft against just about any other target most of the time).

I suggest it is 'noted for next year' and totally ignored this year.

Or have I missed something important?

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RE: ETC FoW 2018 Rulespack

#15 by 96mgb , Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:27 am

Santa Graham has already said this was a mistake it wasnít meant to be there. I noticed it as did Tim and we pointed it out. I doubt many captains even noticed.

While wales isnít going this year we have a vote in the ETC. This rule pack will also be the basis for next year so itís best make sure itís always as correct as it can be.

Additionally this mistake causes the rulebook to directly go against the rule and could lead to issues in the event when people try to engage expensive high value guns which could quite possibly happen. Especially if you need another hit for pin, MGs and cannons are quite good at that without risking a bomb range in (if you have them).

You donít want a rulepack which changes the way everyone plays the games in accordance with the rules hence pointing it out. And you donít want errors in packs which are known about and ignored.

It looks like the word aircraft will be dropped anyway according to the voting thread. As graham has said it was a honest mistake and it will be rectified, he has done a great job itís just a typo/confusion.


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Last edited 07.21.2018 | Top

   

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