Missions for ETC 2018

#1 by Doktor Helge , Mon May 28, 2018 1:16 am

To make things as simple as possible, we are Going to use the same missions on all the tables at the Etc
There Will be 6 predetermined missions
We Will use the updated missions from “more missions”

But are there some missions that we should not use ?

In my opinion there are two missions that we should avoid
Rearguard and Counterattack

Rearguard
Rearguard Can only be won by the defender if you go through all 9 rounds, if you run out Of time it Will be a draw, and only the attacker Can win in turn 1-8 (exept if the attacker is wiped out)
My experience with rearguard is that it usually takes Many hours to complete This mission, we Will have Many draws and some attacker victories in This mission but few defender victories..
I find it too unbalanced when we play at a limited time

Counterattack
This mission is by far the worst balanced mission in the game, it strongly favours the attacker
My experience as attacker and defender is that is is extremely much harder for the defender to losing the objectives
The problem is that the attacker Can sit on one objective quite easily from turn 1, forcing the defender to attack one objective while defending the other, and having only 60% Of his force on the table from the beginning

I dont Think either Of these missions should be amongst the 6 missions for Etc 2018


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RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#2 by Angelfred , Tue May 29, 2018 12:18 pm

@Doktor : from our France’s perspective :


- Counter Attack : we don’t believe it is unbalanced. We believe it is fair for both side.
Yes, the Attacker can move quite rapidly on the far objective, but he can hardly claim it until turn 2. Bear in mind the Spearhead (if you have one) still takes you 16’/40cm away from the objective, then you need to Move, possible Dash, and potentially Follow Me to be within the 4’/10cm radius to claim it.
And possibly another turn to properly make a defensive position acceptable.
Then you end up having troops in the open for 1, 2, or 3 turns, vulnerable to counter attack from the Defender main force or its Reserves (coming from the back … it hurts).
And if the Attacker rushes his army toward the far objective, Defender main force have liberties to tackle it, or pound it while Attacker troops are concentrated, or even Attacker troops too slow to catch up with the Attack being fully vulnerable to Defender push.
And the Attacker can’t win until turn 6.
So, for us, Counter Attack is a good scenario, fair for both side, that should be kept.


- Rearguard : we believe you are absolutely right regarding the timing.
It’s a good scenario for the Attacker (quite hard to Defend here to be honest, yet manageable), yet you are pointing something very accurate : either the game last 9 turns, and there is a Winner and a Loser (fair), either the Attacker wins before turn 9 (fair), either the game is a Draw as the 9 turns hadn’t been reached (unfair).
From past years, we find a very sensitive solution at ETC, while Fighting Withdrawal was effective.
This game need to be plaid fully, regardless of timing.
Either game ends before turn 9 with Objective being Captured by Attacker.
Either game last 9 turns.
As such, we can basically state that, the games of Friday and Saturday afternoon will be Defensive Battles (as we do have to play 2 of these during ETC).
That way, if we end up playing Rearguard, players can play it until the end, regardless of the timing.
Sure, players do need to be self-respectful of others, so you can’t claim, after 3h30 hours, to have only play 4 turns, and expect 3 more hours to complete the round… that’s pure logic and respect, surely everybody at ETC can understand it.
But we are not shocked to have a Rearguard mission lasting 4 hours if it can give proper Winner and Loser.
Especially if we aren’t stressed up by the timing (thus Friday and Saturday).


So, in our opinion, keep the 9 scenarios available.
Just adapt the timing of the event to have both Defensive Missions plaid on Friday afternoon and Saturday afternoon.

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RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#3 by 96mgb , Wed May 30, 2018 10:48 am

Does it even have to be said that Annihilation shouldn’t be used.

Did w day in previous ETcs that fighting withdrawal should be the last game of the day and last the full number of terms. Can’t remember if I’m getting confused with another event. Good idea though!


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RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#4 by graham , Wed May 30, 2018 9:54 pm

We did discuss this in the preparation of the rules pack. Here is the quote from the rulespack:

"Schedule and Missions – During each round, all players will play the same mission. Missions will be drawn from the “More Missions” pdf (https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5507) and they will be selected immediately after the list due date and will be published at that time. Two of each of the following groups of missions will be selected:
• Dust-up, Encounter, Free for All;
• Bridgehead, No Retreat, Rearguard;
• Breakthrough, Counterattack, Contact;
• (Annihilation will not be used. Raiding missions will not be used.)"

Still, anything can be reopened if enough captains want a vote, it so here goes.

I agree with Fred that counterattack is not unbalanced.

If Rearguard is selected as one of the defensive battles, then I agree it should go to the full nine turns, however long it takes and therefore it should be played on the Friday or Saturday afternoon.

96mgb - See above. There is no question of using annihilation.


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RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#5 by pizzaguardian , Thu May 31, 2018 11:23 pm

Can somebody post the rulespack if they have it ?

I will put it as sticky.


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RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#6 by graham , Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:50 am

Here you go...


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ETC v4 rules - rev3 CLEAN.docx
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RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#7 by Dirkhrod , Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:15 pm

Hi guys,

So when are we going to know which scenarios will be played ? It says immediately after list submission.

Sorry for the lack of patience.

Cheers,
Dan


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RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#8 by Doktor Helge , Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:37 pm

My preferencer for missions would be one Of the following:

Option A
Game 1 encounter (Fair fight)
Game 2 no Retreat (mine field mission)
Game 3 breakthrough (meeting engagement mission)
Game 4 bridgehead (mine field mission)
Game 5 dust-up (fair fight)
Game 6 contact (meeting engagement mission)

Option B
Game 1 encounter (Fair fight)
Game 2 no Retreat (mine field mission)
Game 3 breakthrough (meeting engagement mission)
Game 4 rearguard (mine field mission)
Game 5 dust-up (fair fight)
Game 6 contact (meeting engagement mission)

Option C
Game 1 encounter (Fair fight)
Game 2 no Retreat (mine field mission)
Game 3 breakthrough (meeting engagement mission)
Game 4 bridgehead (mine field mission)
Game 5 dust-up (fair fight)
Game 6 counter attack (meeting engagement mission)

Option D
Game 1 encounter (Fair fight)
Game 2 no Retreat (mine field mission)
Game 3 breakthrough (meeting engagement mission)
Game 4 rearguard (mine field mission)
Game 5 dust-up (fair fight)
Game 6 counter attack (meeting engagement mission)


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Last edited 07.01.2018 | Top

RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#9 by Dirkhrod , Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:43 pm

OK, but who is in charge of drawing / selecting the missions ? I am not aware of any plan and this is very important now.


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RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#10 by Doktor Helge , Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:47 pm

I Think that:
Either we should setup a vote very soon (today)
And captains should vote.
Or we give the responsible to one guy (making him a dictator for This one occation), it that case I suggest Graham.
This Will by far be the faster Way


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2013 Captain Of the Danish FOW team
2014 Captain Of the Danish FOW team
2015 Captain Of the Danish FOW team
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2017 Captain Of the Danish FOW team
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RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#11 by Jonny , Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:12 pm

Is a random draw from the approved missions acceptable, or do we want to avoid certain combinations?


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RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#12 by graham , Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:30 pm

Jonny,

The rulespack says "Missions will be drawn from the “More Missions” pdf (https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5507) and they will be selected immediately after the list due date and will be published at that time. Two of each of the following groups of missions will be selected:
• Dust-up, Encounter, Free for All (for these three missions the attacker and defender for each pairing are determined as above, not as per step 1 of "Setting up" in More Missions);
• Bridgehead, No Retreat, Rearguard;
• Breakthrough, Counterattack, Contact
"

Last year this was done by one of the chairmen in a random draw. That is what I assumed would happen again this year, because there is no way to do it "immediately after the list due date" by any other means. If we choose the missions, that would require a vote, which would take until mid-July at best.

I hope we can do the same as last year.

EDIT - Thanks for proposing me as dictator, Helge, but it is better if a chairman rather than a captain does the draw. (I shall seize absolute power later, buwahahahaha…)


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Last edited 07.01.2018 | Top

RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#13 by Jonny , Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:36 pm

Okay, in that case I can draw the missions. The fact that I haven't actually played any games yet, and don't actually know the mission rules, should remove any fear of bias. ;)


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RE: Missions for ETC 2018

#14 by Dirkhrod , Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:47 pm

Thanks, Jonny !


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ETC 2015 - FoW Romania Captain - British Armoured Car Squadron (EW)
ETC 2016 - FoW Romania Captain - Soviet Kazachiy Polk (MW)
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